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Chaos and ODEs Part 1d: Calculations and Results

November 20th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

Introduction
The calculations preformed with the equation systems are summarized in the following discussions. The focus had been on testing for convergence of the numerical solution methods to solutions of the continuous equations. By convergence I mean that as the size of the discrete increment for the independent variable is reduced the calculated values for all dependent variables approach limiting constant values for all values of the independent variable.

None of the systems that are said to exhibit chaotic response have shown convergence. One of those, the Terman system, exhibits periodic response, not chaotic response. The Saltzman system was never intended to be an example for chaotic response.

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Posted in Chaos, Chaos and Lorenz, Numerical methods Verification, ODEs | 6 Comments »

Chaos and ODEs Part 1c: The Numerical Methods

November 18th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

The numerical solution methods that will be used to check convergence are given in a file that I uploaded.

Let me know if you see any typos or if you want to see some results for a specific equation system.

I’m thinking that Part 1d will be some numerical results.

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Chaos and ODEs Part 1b: The Equation Systems

November 16th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

The equation systems that will be used to check convergence are given in a file that I uploaded. I had tons o’ links and cross references and other good stuff but nothing worked out. Maybe later.

Let me know if you see any typos or if you want to see some results for a specific equation system.

I’m thinking that Part 1c will be the numerical methods.

UPDATE Nov 19, 2007: I have replaced the original uploaded file with a version that has some identification for me in it.

Posted in Chaos, Chaos and Lorenz, Numerical methods Verification, ODEs | No Comments »

Chaos and ODEs Part 1a: The Literature Sources

November 15th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

I have way too much material for a single post. I have spent days trying to force a good fit for all the material into a single document. I have put that aside for a while. So these discussions will be broken into several parts. At some future time I might try to tie all the pieces together by use of HTML/PDF.

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Posted in Chaos, Chaos and Lorenz, Numerical methods Verification, ODEs | 2 Comments »

Chaos and Butterflies yet again

June 3rd, 2007 by Dan Hughes

The NWP and GCM communities cannot think that a Butterfly will have any influence whatsoever on any physical phenomena or processes of interest. Instead the phenomenology of The Butterfly Effect as exhibited by the numerical calculations of some systems of ordinary differential equations is invoked by hypothesis into NWP and GCM models/methods/codes. I think we need to limit discussions to the Lorenz-like systems of ODEs, as these seem to be the basis for invoking the phenomenology into the NWP and GCM communities. Otherwise we will get side-tracked into discussions of the “chaotic response of complex dynamical systems” in general.

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Posted in Chaos, Chaos and Lorenz, GCMs, ODEs, Verification | 2 Comments »

References for Chaos Part 0

April 28th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

The literature references cited in Chaos Part 0 are listed in this post. Maybe this will become a Pages.

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Chaos Part 0: ODE Chaotic Response is Numerical Noise

April 28th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

In this post we look at a every important issue relative to the foundations of chaotic response as inferred from numerical calculations with systems of ordinary differential equations (ODEs). The relationship of the contents of these notes to calculations with numerical weather prediction (NWP) and general climate models (GCMs) might be discussed in future posts.

Summary Statement
Converged numerical solutions of systems of ordinary differential equations that exhibit chaotic response have never been published. Converged numerical solutions have yet to be obtained for such equation systems. The preceding statements need to be qualified by limiting them to long ranges of values of the independent variable. And of course the statements apply only to the situations for which a given equation system exhibits chaotic response. Additionally, the statements are based on what I will denote as standard numerical solution methods. Standard numerical solution methods include just about all methods that are widely used. Solution methods other than standard, denoted as self-validating, will be specified later in these notes.

Given that chaotic response of complex dynamical systems at its foundation is based almost entirely on numerical solutions of the ODE systems, this situation is almost beyond comprehension. The recently-published paper reviewed here and here on this blog clearly shows the lack of convergence as the step size is refined.

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Posted in Chaos, Numerical methods Verification, ODEs | 2 Comments »

A Short Summary of Future Discussions

March 28th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

The chaotic phenomenology of small systems of non-linear ODEs is entirely numerical ODE chaos. And, the original Lorenz system of 1963 contains no physical phenomena or processes of interest in NWP and AOLGCM applications.

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Posted in Calculation Verification, Chaos and Lorenz, ODEs | 1 Comment »

An Important Peer-Reviewed Paper: Part 1

March 22nd, 2007 by Dan Hughes

We’ll now look at some of the results presented in the paper.

Introduction and Background
The authors have introduced the subject of convergence of numerical methods into the field of chaotic dynamical systems. This field is very important in many areas of current intense study and investigation. Numerical models and solution methods exhibit chaotic dynamical-system characteristics in weather and climate modeling, direct numerical and large eddy simulations of turbulent flows, as well as the classical studies of chaotic systems through nonlinear ODEs as introduced by Lorenz and others. The author’s paper seems to be the first in the literature to present results of systematic investigations of convergence into this important field of research and applications.
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Posted in Chaos and Lorenz, GCMs, Numerical methods Verification, ODEs, PDEs, Verification | 1 Comment »

An Important Peer-Reviewed Paper: Part 0

March 9th, 2007 by Dan Hughes

This paper Time-step Sensitivity of Nonlinear Atmospheric Models: Numerical Convergence, Truncation Error Growth and Ensemble Design addresses some of the important issues for which this blog was established. Extensive discussions will follow as I get the results of my work documented. I have used the 3D Lorenz equations for most of my work, but have looked at other ODEs for which chaotic response has been demonstrated.

One conclusion that I am almost certain about at this time is that standard numerical solution methods applied to ODEs that exhibit chaotic responses have never been shown to converge. Additionally, it is very likely that convergence can not be demonstrated. The calculated numbers are very likely noise that does not satisfy the continuous equations. Some parts of this conclusion will cary over to numerical solution methods for PDEs. Some of the issues were mentioned in this post. The chaotic responses calculated by AOLGCM models/codes are in fact purely numerical artifacts from a combination of the numerical solution methods, lack of convergence of the calculations, and the algebraic parameterizations used in the models.

These issues will be addressed in subsequent posts here. First we take a preliminary look at some of the issues brought to light by the subject paper.

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Posted in Chaos, GCMs, Lorenz, Numerical methods Verification, ODEs, PDEs | No Comments »